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Wednesday, February 29, 2012


One particularly evil pundit remarked wrongly, that "every death is a suicide."
But really, many if not most, are murders:  homicides by committee; conspiracies based on consensuous condemnation resulting from hateful covetousness, and simply executed through negligent paucities of due process.

In other words, we unfortunately possess no Societal Justice or Truth.  Our Systems frankly disrespect Humanity.

In other words, the mighty, powerful, and aggressive men of our Society have generally degenerated to the level of inhumanly sadistic, hysterically predatorial ~beasts, hunting "witches".  Thus, they label their victims negatively (demonizing them) because they need socially approved justifications for their crimes.  They need to share accountability with their peers, for their tendencies to bully.  And they need to work as covertly as possible, in order to get away with it for very long.

Pacifist, gentle people are stalked by them, as if by grizzlies or by lions.

They know that the dead don't talk, and believe they are defenseless.


"What is 'government', when [or, IF] words have no meaning?"  ---  Jared Loughner

I believe Jared was an instrument in the hands of our government; one who was hellbent on silencing Gabrielle Giffords.  But, he makes a very valid point:  if words have no meaning, then 'government' also has no meaning.

I believe Giffords was silenced by 'committee', for her stance on government spending.  The politicians and bureaucrats have ruined our nation's economy, and she was talking about reform which would have cut deeply into their pleasure-seeking materialism.

Loughner was merely an easily brainwashed tool for them:  an 'expendable' hitman, who would take the rap for them.  They've probably lobotomized him, by now.

Maybe it wasn't Giffords, but some of her trolly 'staff', who actually pushed Loughner over the edge.


Suicide is an act of violence against the Self, and I'm not a violent person (other than for self-defense) --  so my death, whenever it occurs, is definitely not "suicide" (regardless of who says so).

No one can make me hate life, no matter how hard they may try.


"God sifted a whole nation that he might send choice grain into this wilderness."

  ---  William Stoughton  (From "Election Sermon at Boston", April 29, 1667; quoted in Bartlett's "Familiar Quotations".)

I'm sure William would be rolling in his grave now, if he could but see and know what has happened and continues to occur, in America.


Thursday, February 16, 2012

In a Nutshell

John Denman was only 14 when he arrived in Boston with his younger siblings and twice-widowed mother, via Barbadoes, West Indies (in order to outwit the English authorities, who in 1635 would often force passengers booked for North America, to disembark before ever leaving Gravesend harbor).

His mother's Puritan family was from Surrey (southeast England, where her father was a Reverend); and she had two brothers helping her: one who colonized Dorchester, Massachussetts; and another who lived in Windsor, Connecticut.  She resided and died (1639) in Salem Colony.

However, John's father's family (also Puritan) was from the Midlands of England (Retford, Nottinghamshire); and while still in his teen years, he moved to Long Island, NY, near where he married Sarah Hollander.

Their eldest son then later purchased undeveloped acreage near Newtown, Long Island (also known as "Middleburgh", in times past), from local Indian chiefs, which included a salt meadow held in common with two Scudder brothers. (Salt hay was used, to keep their cattle healthy).

However, after Britain grabbed New York (and much of their land got confiscated in the bargain), setting off a long series of vicious fights over boundaries, his young widow, French Huguenot Mary Gano (he'd married very late in years), whose own family had originated in La Rochelle, France, sold the remaining property after his death, to the Hallett family, and moved to New Jersey (Westfield vicinity) with her children and second husband (Mr. Brooks).

(Some of the Scudders also moved to New Jersey around the same time; and our direct ancestor, Daniel, married one of their daughters, Deborah).

Our Denman ancestors stayed in New Jersey on their 100 acre parcel (purchased by Mary Gano's eldest Denman son, John), until the Revolution was declared; whereupon John's son, Daniel, and Daniel's (also Deborah Scudder's) son, James, both left NJ to fight for Georgia Colony during that war.  (Deborah later remarried, to Daniel's brother, Phillip Denman; and I believe they resided in Connecticut thereafter).

James won a post-war land lottery in northern Georgia, and our branch of the family has been "Southern" ever since that time (his grandson, my gg-grandfather, eventually settled on land in a rural area of central Florida, after the Civil War).

(Daniel's eldest brother, John, my grand-uncle, x's removed, had also left NJ to fight for Georgia Colony, but was able to return to NJ, following or perhaps even during the war.)

... Another significant (to me at least, since he's a direct ancestor and one of whom I fortunately know more) branch of my father's family came from London, England (having found refuge there, after escaping harsh religious persecutions in Navarre, France).

In 1740, his father ran away from his French Huguenot grandparents as a young boy, leaving from Gravesend to Baltimore, Maryland, with his older brother.  The Seviers colonized the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia at first, but then later moved to Tennessee.  John Sevier became the first governor of Tennessee, and is my 6th great-grandfather.  His great-granddaughter, Neaty Elston, married James' son (Blake, my 3rd g-grandfather) in Georgia.

... On my mother's side of the family, I'm told that John Morrow was a knitter by trade from Dublin, Ireland, who married (Sarah) Selena Cathey in Scotland, before sailing to America and settling in McMinnville, Tennessee.

[CORRECTION:  John Morrow did marry in Scotland, but not to Selena Cathey.  Selena actually married William Thompson, my grandfather's grandfather.  (Same branch, different twig.)]

I'm not sure where the Thompsons or Kimberlings of my mother's family originated, but all of the above listed, eventually homesteaded lands in the Ozark mountain regions of circa late 18th to 19th century Arkansas and Missouri.

... Mother's mother's side of the family were Elkins, Nobles, Hilburns (possibly Cherokee, as some Hilburns probably related to me are listed on the Dawes' rolls), and Birds (definitely Cherokee).  Not sure where the Elkins or Nobles originated, but they were involved in the turpentine industry in North Carolina and then later in St. Augustine, Florida (where my grandmother was born, in 1902).

I still can't find even reprints of my grandmother's family photos (afraid they may be lost forever), but I managed finally to get off my tired backside and located page two of a letter she'd written in her own hand to me, shortly before her death in 1984, in response to my inquiries about her family history:

The text reads (to translate it for you):  "My mother's name was Polly Hilburn Elkins.  Mama's daddy's name was Steven Hilburn.  Grandma's name was Cely Bird Hilburn.  Bird is an Indian name.  My daddy's name was George Washington Elkins.  His mother's name was Nancy [Nobles] Elkins, & his daddy was Jonathan Elkins.  Yes, we were part Indian.  Your grandfather's [her husband's] name was Arthur Grady Thompson.  His mother was Octavia Morrow Thompson.  His dad's name was Dr. James Isack [Isaac] Thompson."

Although not college-educated, Mary Gladys was a very intelligent, well-mannered and industrious woman, who earned the respect of her entire community and family.  I have no reason to doubt her word on it.  And she showed me her family pictures, including an informal portrait of the aged Cely Bird.  Cely is my only (verified) most distant ancestor, whose family certainly originated here, in America.

Grandma, Mary Gladys Elkins (Wray, Hagewood) Thompson, ("Gladys") with my sister Barbara under the comforter at her feet.

Grandpa, Arthur Grady ("Grady") Thompson, age 75 here.  He worked guard-duty on one of the filming sets of the movie, "Follow That Dream", located out on the marsh flats of the Gulf of Mexico, near his home in Inglis, Florida.

When asked by Elvis' 'people', "Where's a good place to eat?",  he offered, "My house!";  and Elvis accepted.  Grandma told me that Elvis and crew ate "dinner" (an early afternoon meal, in those days) at her little 'Jim Walter' home, several times while working in Levy county, Florida; and showed me the autographed portrait of himself, which he later had his secretary send to her from Graceland (my mother still has it, as far as I know).

And I suspect that's how Grandpa ended up with the "Baby-Blue" Cadillac he was so proud of, although the family wouldn't have bragged about how he got it.  They only broke out in grins, when mentioning it.

Grandpa on the actual set of "Follow That Dream", in Yankeetown, Florida.  The beach was artificially created with semi-truckloads of sand.  Dad took me over to see it while some sand was still left on it.  Now it's all gone -- washed away by the tides.
In these three b&w photos from the newspaper account linked above, an older gentleman dressed in 'Summertime Florida' Sheriff's uniform exactly like my grandfather (and looking like him too, as far as I can tell) -- is never far from Elvis' side.  In the first one he escorts Elvis at the man's left elbow; in the second picture he follows Elvis, emerging from a doorway; in the third one he is hiding behind the palmetto branches, so as to keep out of a fan-photo. LMAO!
A very grainy snapshot, but Elvis' autographed picture is hanging up there on Grandma's living-room wall (upper left corner).  It's the common one seen everywhere:  the one of young Elvis wearing a solid red shirt.  (My sister broke her leg in a bike accident.)
Extremely grainy close-up... perhaps not worth posting (sorry, but people never believe me when I tell them my grandparents entertained Elvis in their home.  I guess it seems so 'cliche', lol.
Me at the "End of the Road", where the boat ramp is on the Gulf of Mexico, just down the road from the movie set, in Yankeetown (ca1971, age 13).  The family would often drive down there, just to watch the amazing sunsets.  And I remember some lovely old, wind-gnarled Cedar trees down at the very mouth of the river where it empties into the Gulf, the roots of which clung tenaciously to the bare rocks.  At low tide, you could practically walk out to the islands (we called them sandbars) -- but it was dangerous to do so, because of the rip-tides and muck.  When the wind was calm, the water looked like a huge glass mirror, if the Sun's angle was just right.  At such times the water reflected the sky so perfectly, disappearing and becoming an extension of it.  The colors were fabulous.  I'll never forget the smell of the ocean and the marshes.  Of all foods, seafood is my favorite.

My second cousin, George Stephens' and wife, Jerri's old "Rock Store" on hiway 40 in Inglis, Florida.  They had a lovely apartment complete with piano, in the top floor of the building; no children.
Yankeetown School, in Inglis, Florida; made of the same native stone.
"Home of the mighty Sand Gnats", LOL.
Eighth Street Elementary School
Osceola Middle School, Ocala, Florida
Ocala High School (Forest High), the campus where I attended classes.
The campus of my parents' generation.
Pictures of the new Forest High School campus.
Kimberling family info.
There are a number of Kimberlings in West Virginia, too (probably related, somehow, since it's a rare name).

Wednesday, February 15, 2012

Grandmother's Testimony

Years ago, when I was in my 20's, my grandmother, Mary Gladys Elkins Thompson, wrote me this letter, in response to my questions about our family history.  This is only the second page of it; and if I ever locate the first page, I'll post that too.
UPDATE:  I've since located page one of my letter from Grandma, and now the two pages are back together again... however, because it's just some personal stuff, I see no reason to post it online.

No one is or was more credible than this woman; she had not only my respect, but that of everyone who knew her.  She also offered me precious family photos, just six weeks prior to her death; but I was eight months pregnant and too overwhelmed with emotion to accept them at the time, because even though she didn't mention it, I intuitively realized she wouldn't be with us much longer.  That knowledge hit me very hard.  So my sister Barbara got most of them, but then later lost them when she left her husband.

The letter's text reads:  "My mother's name was Polly Hilburn Elkins.  Mama's daddy's name was Steven Hilburn.  Grandma's name was Cely Bird Hilburn.  Bird is an Indian name.  My daddy's name was George Washington Elkins.  His mother's name was Nancy [Nobles] Elkins, & his daddy was Jonathan Elkins.  Yes we were part Indian.  Your grandfather's [her husband's] name was Arthur Grady Thompson.  His mother was Octavia Morrow Thompson.  His dad's name was Dr. James Isack [Isaac] Thompson." 

Grandma, in ca1971; sister Barbara (with broken leg from a bicycle accident that occured at one of her friends' house) is under the comforter in front, at her feet
I don't know for certain, but am inclined to think that Cely Bird's family might be associated with either Bird Town or Paint Town?
Eldridge H. Hagewood, my Grandmother's second husband and father of my aunt, Celeste Hagewood Fowler Andrews.  He died young, evidently from some sort of work-related accident.

Raven and Lions

The arms and crest for Charles Spencer Denman, 5th Baron & 2nd Baronet of Staffield, county Cumberland; from Debrett's Illustrated Peerage, page 356.

"Arms: Argent, on a chevron between three lions' heads erased gules, as many ermine spots or.

"Crest: A raven rising proper, in the beak an annulet or.

"Supporters: On either side a lion gules, charged on the body with five ermine spots in cross or."

An "annulet" is a "little ring", which ordinarily in English heraldry signifies the fifth son of the patriarch.

This one is a bit different, artistically (although not in its heraldic details), from the one in Harriet Harris' book of Denman history, published in 1913; and I'm not certain, but just assume that her illustration was from one that was carried over with the family (with Judith Stoughton's son, John Denman, b.1621 in Retford, England), to America in 1635.

I'm not sure what the precise connection is from him (and us) to any of the English Denmans.  Took me long enough, just to figure out the American branch of our family tree.
For comparison, above is the illustration from Harriet Harris' book.  I don't know much about heraldry, so can't comment much about the differences in the two; or about the authenticity of Harris' illustration.  All I can say is that hers looks to me like the real thing, just an older version.  I don't know where she got it (maybe a bookplate, or ?).  All of her other illustrations in the book, are bona fide family mementos (from the collection of a member of Christopher Denman's branch),  so I expect that this one was, too.

Censorship by Genetic Genealogists

Genetic Genealogists maintain very tight control of information on their websites.  How can they receive federal government funding, when practicing such bias?  Yesterday, my comment to Bernard Secher was blocked by R1a1a (DNA forums moderator).  My opinion was not even open to discussion, regardless of the sheer, unvarnished truth in it.  And if there was not truth in my position, why not then allow someone "more knowledgeable" than I am, to explain the true facts of the matter, to me and others who might believe similarly regarding European history?

Today, it was American history which got curbed by the moderators.  'hentiny's' response to 'westpa's' ridiculous logic, was severely curtailed there, on the very same thread where 'rainbow' was officially allowed to sarcastically infer that Caucasoid Indians were/are in the same league with "Bigfoot" (or, "Sasquatch").  The hypocrisy of that "community" is utterly palpable.
(page 2)

westpa:  "...An ancient European migration to the Americas has always seemed plausible to me. The problem is the lack of evidence to support it. No DNA results from pre-Columbian remains showing typically European haplogroups. That is not to say that a future finding of such remains is impossible (especially in the northeast). If I were a betting man, I'd put down a little wager that we eventually find some. But I'd also bet that any pre-Columbian European migration was very small in comparison to the those who came across from Asia (Siberia, Polynesia, Jomon or otherwise)."

[My interjection:  And as for us living remnants of those ancient ones, they and the government are annoyed with and simply deny our very existence...  Next, I record the response attributed to 'hentiny' by forum moderator(s); then following, 'hentity's' complete, real statement, which showed up in my email inbox, from the forum.]

'hentiny's' moderated reply:  [westpa quote]: "No DNA results from pre-Columbian remains showing typically European haplogroups."

[hentiny] and of course sea people/ sea tribes buried their dead?

'hentiny's' unmoderated reply:  you know to prove how ignorant scifi is did you all know that sea people buried their people at sea?

did you know they might sometimes bury their leaders, kings etc.;

but did you know those kings were always the same female clan..

you didn't know that did you or any anyone does hum !

so your kind of proof is totally irrelevant to real history and ALL DNA you do find came from the
last two thousand years or less.

and what is even worse any kings they did bury you scifi folks have had your way with it and nothing of them even is left ....

(the Windover mummies of Florida)
(Penon Woman of Mexico)
(the US Dept of the Interior's keen interest in the remains of Kennewick Man, found in the Columbia River of Washington State)
(the Smithsonian Institute was forcefully prevented by the US government, from further study of Kennewick Man)
(Luzia woman, from Brazil.  It seems there are possible Continental differences between ancient remains of North America, compared to those found in South America.  The oldest North American remains are apparently Caucasoid; whereas the South American remains are more likely to be Australoid or even possibly African.  It makes sense that there are Human variances between the two continents, as there are very definite and dramatic differences in the populations of other mammalian species, too.)
(9000 year old Caucasian Mummy found in Nevada.  This mummy was wrapped in the very same type of finely handwoven textiles, which were found along with the Windover Mummies of Florida)
(While these documentarians attempt to present the facts in an unbiased manner, yet they perpetuate the Euro-centric attitudes found in our Euro-centric American government.  To wit, they characterize >7000 yr old remains discovered on American soil, as "European"... Lol.)
(Discover Magazine's documentary about Kennewick Man)
(The latest evidence about ancient Americans is shattering "traditional history")

The concluding statement from the above-linked video, "Native Americans may not have been the first", is bullshit.  Because, no matter how many different 'races' populated pre-Columbian America or when they got here -- every one of us who are descended from pre-Columbian families are "Native Americans", regardless of our 'race'.

Every one of us, despite our varying DNA, were robbed of our homelands and of our natural resources.  We were all stripped of our identities and subjected to genocide.  We were all forced to give up our own traditions, to accept the laws and customs (even the clothing) of the Aryan invaders from over seas.

All of us were treated then as now, like second- or last- class citizens.  All Native Americans are still being subjected to continual discrimination, personal attack, and prejudice, even to this very day.  It has nothing to do with our DNA.  It's all about the fact that we were and are HERE, on OUR LAND, which they COVET and STOLE / STEAL from us.

The narrow-minded and bigoted "authorities" persist in trying to attach a 'race' label on Native Americans, and that's wrong.

Tuesday, February 14, 2012

What is Truth?,_Anne_(DNB00)
("Portraits of Illustrious Personages of Great Britain... with Biographical and Historical Memoirs of their Lives and Actions", by Edmund Lodge, Esq. F.S.A.)

Lady Anne Hyde, Duchess of York

I have good enough reasons to believe that Anne Hyde, daughter of 1st Earl of Clarendon, Edward Hyde, and Lady Frances Aylesbury, is a distant cousin.  But, I haven't yet been able to figure out the precise connection.  Her grandmother was Anne Denman, wife of Sir Thomas Aylesbury; and her great-grandfather was Reverend Francis Denman of Retford, Nottinghamshire, England.

("It is, however, to be regretted, that the pedigree of the family cannot be made out so correctly as to preserve the line of descent uninterrupted. This, however, does not in the least invalidate the correctness of the foregoing statement, nor tend to disprove the facts, but is merely the result of the defective state of the registers in the sixteenth century, and of negligence in not preserving the documents pertaining to the family. The following pedigree of the Derbyshire branch is as correct as can be ascertained."

... Note also, that Retford endured at least two massive fires and was the site of many battles during Civil and other wars in England.  I find that America too, has had our official public records decimated repeatedly, since early Colonial times.  Even today, most of our public records aren't actually "public":  we citizens are often forced to pay dearly for "certified copies", and even for the "privilege" of simply viewing them.)

Rumor has it, that one of her daughters (Anne, who later became queen of England) was born in 1665 at the old Nottingham Castle (which has since been replaced by the "Ducal Palace", or "Mansion", completed in 1679), described to have been a very fine home with large rooms.  One bedroom therein was long known locally as, "Queen Anne's chamber".

As a young girl, she was Maid of Honor to a Princess of Denmark; where she made quite a splash at court.  She had a lively personality, and won the hearts of more than a few suitors.  Future king of England, James II, seduced her there, getting her pregnant; whereupon his brother, king Charles II forced him to marry her.  Their wedding ceremony was conducted at a private home in the middle of the night, because of all the opposition and controversy surrounding their union.  She was at least six months pregnant, at the time of her official nuptials.

Prior to the wedding, a smear campaign had been waged against her by associates of her future husband, (known as James, Duke of York, at the time).  She was characterized by a group of male courtiers acting together, as a slut, a tramp; when her father heard what was being said about her, he advised the king to send her to the Tower, for possible execution by be-heading.  And at first, her future mother-in-law also hated her because of the scandal; but luckily, the leader of the conspiracy later recanted, admitting that it was all lies.  They really just didn't want the marriage to take place, probably for political reasons.

All that drama had caused much confusion and turmoil in the minds of James, his brother king Charles, and her father Edward Hyde, who was Charles' official court advisor.  All before they even got married, and while she was pregnant with her first child.

She was a good wife, good mother, and a woman of great intelligence and skill.  But their marriage was unhappy, due to James' tendency to sleep around with mistresses.  Yet she bore the brunt of his misconduct, again being unfairly accused of criminal behavior:  this time for the murder of one of James' other women.  She was also accused of having an illicit affair herself; was mocked for her alleged body odor; and for her habit of over-eating.

Yet despite his loose morals and all of the relentless, jealous controversies around Anne herself, James really loved his wife; saying this about his feelings for her, in his personal memoirs:

"When [my] sister, the Princess Royal came to Paris, to see the Queen Mother, [I] fell in love with Mrs. Anne Hyde, one of her maids of honour.  Beside her person, she had all the qualities proper to inflame a heart less apt to take fire than [mine]; which she managed so well, as to bring [my] passion to such a height, as between the time [I] first saw her, and the winter before the King's restoration, [I] resolved to marry none but her, and promised her to do it; and though at first, when [I] asked the King, [my] brother, for [my] leave, he refused, and dissuaded [me] from it, yet at last he opposed it no more, and [I] married her privately... Her want of birth was made up by endowments, and her carriage afterwards became her dignity."

And regardless of her hardships, she managed anyhow to raise two very beautiful and intelligent daughters, future queens Anne (wife of Prince George of Denmark) and Mary II (wife of William of Orange).  Both of her daughters enjoyed happy marriages.  But although her entire family (except her husband) were loyal Protestants, she decided to secretly convert to Roman Catholicism.

It was on her deathbed, where she died of breast cancer, and where the priest was performing the last rites for her, shortly after the birth of her last child (only two of six survived infancy), that she was prompted to reveal her final thoughts before passing on; to which she replied:

"What is Truth?  ...Truth...Truth...Truth..."

Queen Mary II

Queen Anne
I like this portrait of Anne when she was only around three years old.

Monday, February 13, 2012

European Neolithization and Ancient DNA: an Assessment
(page 4)
(Although GST was dismissive of this excellent study, others are more impressed.  Nevertheless, Bernard Secher on the French-language forum couldn't understand why the focus was on mtDNA, and desired to see a study of the yDNA comparisons.)


['Bernard Secher']

Après lecture du papier de Deguilloux voici quelques remarques:
1) Deguilloux a écrit son papier avant la sortie du papier de Marie Lacan sur la grotte Avellaner en Espagne puisqu'elle n'en parle pas. Elle parle, par contre du premier papier de Marie Lacan sur la grotte de Treilles dans le sud de la France.
2) Deguilloux parle de résultats de tests d'ADN ancien encore non publié de la nécropole de Gurgy en France du néolithique moyen. 3 résultats  de test mtDNA sont donnés pour Gurgy: T, X et J sans plus de précision.
3) Deguilloux base son analyse à partir des tests de mtDNA en Europe centrale, Europe du nord et Europe de l'ouest. Elle donne ce schéma très intéressant:
On remarque ainsi que le mésolithique est donné essentiellement par les haplogroupes U5 et U4. Le reste est du au néolithique (K, T, W, N1, X). Deguilloux en conclue une forte discontinuité dans l'ADN mitochondrial entre les paléolithiques et les premiers néolithiques. Par contre elle remarque que l'ADN mitochondrial paléolithique se retrouve de façon assez importante dans la population européenne actuelle. Elle en conclue a un mélange des pool génétiques paléolithique et néolithique après le néolithique initial. Cela l'ammène à proposer un modèle de néolithisation du courant danubien par migration intiale en saut de grenouille jusqu'en Europe occidentale, suivie d'une acculturation avec les paléolithiques à partir de chaque enclave néolithique.
Je mettrai tout de même un petit bémol avec cette interprétation puisqu'elle est déduite uniquement de l'ADN mitochondrial. Il manque encore des tests d'ADN Y pour valider ou non ce modèle.

My reply:

"Tres bon, merci beaucoups.

"L'accent est mis sur l'ADN mitochondrial, parce que quand la conquete de nouveaux territoires, les envahisseurs Neolithique tues ou reduits en esclavage la plupart (sinon tous) des hommes.  Ils castres leurs jeunes esclaves de sexe masculin, et ont viole les femmes (en gardant la progeniture pour eux-memes).  Ce n'etait pas un paisible ou 'civilise' l'immigration, a l'epoque.

"C'est pourquoi il ya plus Paleolithique ADNmt et a peine l'un des ADNy ancienne gauche a etudier."


In English:

Bernard Secher:  "...[although he likes the paper]... I still have a small problem with this interpretation since it is only inferred from mitochondrial DNA.  It still lacks confirmation with yDNA testing."


My reply in English:  Very good, thanks a lot.  The focus is on mtDNA, because when conquering new territories, the Neolithic invaders would either kill or enslave most (if not all) of the native men.  They would castrate the young boys, and rape the women (keeping their offspring for themselves).  It was not a peaceful or 'civilized' immigration, in those times.

That's why there is much more of the Paleolithic mtDNA remaining, and very little ancient yDNA left to study.


I find it pretty amazing, how unaware many supposedly educated people are, about history.  This same guy is wondering why Serbia has uncharacteristically retained much more of its Paleolithic yDNA, than have other countries, lol.


Their Political Agenda is Too Obvious
(The link to the pdf for Donald Panther-Yates' work, "Cherokee Clans, an Informal History" c2011)


['zänder', quote (to me)]:

"I'm sorry, but in a previous post you recommended a "recent study", written by Donald Panther-Yates and I thought, it was your text or at least one, you could subscribe.

"I simply cite:

'"One of the cases of U2e* is my own, an anomalous Cherokee type . . .
This line evidently arose from a Jewish Indian trader and a cherokee woman."'


I don't enjoy correcting or re-educating people who claim ostentatiously, to be my intellectual superiors (lol).  It doesn't pay well, for one thing; it's time-consuming and stressful, for another.  These trolls are obviously biased, prejudiced, and don't read or speak English well (yet they never give up trying to force their politics and religions on me, and certainly on others too, who differ with them).

Worse than that, they usually receive favoritism from forum moderators (and presumably from other power sources, too) -- while we who differ with them (although more correctly so) receive little but persecution (discrimination, blocking, banning, derision, mocking, lies, gang-stalking, cyber-bullying, etc.), for sticking to and defending the factual truth.

Today, Yorkie visited my profile again; and R1a1a removed more of my comments:  the one where I explained Yorkie's (and his surname dictionary's) linguistic mistakes regarding the Denman name; and the one where I pointed out my direct relationship to US patriot and colorful historical figure, Tennessee's first governor, John Sevier.  Why do those things bother them enough to take action against me?  They behave like spoiled, jealous children.  Why do they rival me?  Do they just hate being wrong about anything?

Or, is my opinion of less value than theirs, for some unexplainable reason?  Do they have more Right to Free Speech and to Freedom of Beliefs (Religion), than 'regular', "common" people like me?

If that's the case, I disagree.  If I am so worthless in their eyes, why is my opinion of any concern for them?  Why does my opinion have any meaning at all for them, if that's the case?


My reply to "zander", awaiting moderator 'approval':  He's suggesting there, that his female Cherokee ancestor was U2e, not the Jewish male ancestor (obviously).  (You seem to believe that particular haplotype to be strictly associated with Jewish ethnicity only.)  Besides, if you continue reading, in the same paragraph, a couple of sentences later, he names the yDNA of that same Jewish trader: "J".

"Haplogroup U2 (named 'Uta' by Bryan Sykes) is most common in South Asia but also found in low frequency in Central and West Asia, as well as in Europe as U2e.

"This haplogroup has been found in the remains of a 30,000-year-old hunter-gatherer in South European Russia (Kostenki)."  Wikipedia


Following, is the Donald Panther-Yates reference with which "zander" took issue, while misquoting it:

"In Phase I and II of “Anomalous
Cherokee Mitochondrial DNA Lineages,"
many Paint Clan descendants proved to be
haplogroup U2e* or X. One of the cases
of U2e* is my own, an anomalous
Cherokee type also found in other study
participants and traced to Libya and
Greece in ancient times. This line evidently
arose from a Jewish Indian trader and a
Cherokee woman. My fifth-greatgrandmother
was born about 1790 on the
northern Georgia and southwestern North
Carolina frontier and had a relationship
with a trader named Enoch Jordan. The
trader's male line descendants from his
white family in North Carolina possess Y
chromosomal J, a common Jewish type."


Sunday, February 12, 2012

Blood Quantum, a Greed-Based Myth Contrived to Exclude & Exploit People

"There is no such thing as 'part-Cherokee.' Either you're Cherokee or you’re not.

"It isn't the quantity of Cherokee blood in your veins that is important, but the quality of it . . . your pride in it. I have seen full-bloods who have virtually no idea of the great legacy entrusted to their care. Yet, I have seen people with as little as 1/500th blood quantum who inspire the spirits of their ancestors because they make being Cherokee a proud part of a their everyday life."

by Jim Pell, Principal Chief of the North Alabama Cherokee Tribe

("Blood Quantum Myth", by Debra Utacia Krol, in a Letter to the "High Country News", c2009)

"...In my studies on biology and genetics, I learned that our Native elders did have extensive knowledge of biology, ecology, genetics, lethal recessives and the like. The only difference is that Western science quantifies, categorizes and classifies while Native science looks at the whole story. (The overused term is "holistic.")...

[NOTE:  There actually are more than one difference between our science and the Aryan form.  One is, that they capitalize on their knowledge, with-holding knowledge from all others as if it were a commodity (like, chattel).  That is the whole purpose of their Secret societies and their oppressive, hypocritical "privacy" legislation (which only serve criminals -- ie themselves mainly, and don't protect victims or innocent people).  Case in point:  Obama's refusal to provide us with a valid birth certificate, proving American citizenship.  The ultimate hypocrisy, since "commoners" like us are forced to document everything in triplicate, repeatedly.

[Another difference, is that the Aryan / Indo-European cultures play politics with 'knowledge' (ie, they habitually lie with straight faces, right through their apish grins -- as long as it serves their purposes).]

... "The myth of blood quantum is just that, a myth. Today, when a tribal member says he or she is a "fullblood," unless that person belongs to one of the really huge tribes like the Navajo, the extreme likelihood is that person has several tribes' worth of blood, and she or he is only a fullblood on paper -- the Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood, to be precise. In fact, the whole idea of blood quantum is an invention of the United States government that was meant to ensure that only tribal members were able to access the programs set aside for Indians (you know, inadequate health care, insufficient educational benefits and the like).

"We as Indian people need to consult with our elders, look at how we used to decide who was a member, and develop policies that more closely reflect our traditional ways of counting who belongs. Instead of trying to figure out how much Indian DNA a person has, let's figure out ways to build and sustain economies within tribal communities that keep our young people at home, where they can still earn a living and be close to elders, spiritual people, the language and the land from which they were created."

Debra Utacia Krol
Phoenix, Arizona

"Troy M. Woodward
Jan 30, 2009 08:45 AM
I agree that blood quantum is an invention of the federal government and has its roots in the deep south where they kept careful records of any negro blood, down to 1/8, 1/16, etc. Some Tribes have no blood quantum requirement for enrollment. Some didn't until the 1960's (Blackfeet) when the Tribes were expecting payouts from the Indian Claims Commission judgments. With the change to blood quantum requirments, it is entirely possible to have both parents enrolled in the same tribe but have children who "lack" sufficient blood quantum for enrollment. This happened at Blackfeet where an entire generation of people were disenfranchised from the Tribe beginning in August of 1962. Since then, it has caused constant problems as tribal members' children are not tribal members. This needs to be changed back to the way it was before greed caused the change to blood quantum. Don't buy into this racist policy. Being Indian shouldn't come down to having to rely on BIA spotty record keeping and guesswork."
(Blood Quantum) 
"Spotted Crow
Jan 30, 2009 10:58 AM 
... This blood thing is archiac , primitive and useless.
Our Ancesters taught us we are all Human beings , and that what I am , 100% Human being Im not be broken down by blood.
Why not break us down by our eyes, hair or even how tall we are?
Again, yes we need to ensure all of us who are survivors of the Indian Holacust have justice , but this blood thing needs to end.
No percentile of blood, more or less can make you a better or worse Human being.
This is Biological Racism
Our Traditions and Ceremonies are Sacred and bind us to our Ancestors.But one thing our people forget, we Ndns are very intelligent people and we were never Static.
Point being, the world is changing and we know how to change , so today we apply our Ancient ways of respecting and loving the Earth and the people Creator Made.
So...Tell me about your Nation, Your Creation story or something about your Elders.
But dont tell me about your Blood , save that for the RED CROSS.
Spotted Crow"

Feb 16, 2009 02:06 PM
i for one do not need to spend hundreds of dollars to prove who or what i am.. i know in my heart that there is Cherokee blood running through my veins. I have been told by my elders. I do not wnat anything from the federal goverment for being what i am. I am proud just the same."
(Blood Quantum - Spotted Crow's comment)

"Beth Laxson
Feb 07, 2011 04:11 AM
...My great great great grandfather was an Indian Chief, and it saddens me to know nothing else. We need to tell our children where we came from... We all gotta survive this life together."
(Cherokee Heritage)

"William L. Bathe
May 08, 2010 04:52 PM
My late mother's father, George Thomas Young, was full blood cherokee, verified by the Cherokee Nation in Tahlequah, Ok. in 2000.
His Dawes Roll # 17835. I believe her mother was also full blood but
I can't verify it. I am 72 years old and have been trying to get accepted with the Cherokee Nation for many years, but they keep asking for document after document. The BIA contacted my mother in the early 1950's stating she and her siblings had land in Oklahoma, but she couldn't obtain the documents they requested and I picked up the issue in later years. I submitted her original death certificate and my original birth certiicate from Los Angeles County last year and submitted them. Now I have to submit the same documents from the state of California. I won't have them until sometime in August. It just seems like the run around. I know what my heritage is, and all I'm asking is recognition. I writing this to you after reading Jim Pell's quote about 'part-Cherokee. What else can I do."
(Blackfeet Blood Quantum)

"Dawn Nickerson
Jun 01, 2010 04:53 PM
Yes, because the laws were passed in 1962 and this raised the blood qantum to 1/4 to be enrolled by the Blackfeet. Anyone born after 1962 was not eligible for enrollment into the Blackfeet Tribe, even if you did met the 1/4 blood qantum. My sister was an enrolled member all her life raised on the rez as all my family does. My sister was born before 1962. But as for me I was born in 1966, and I was told over and over that I was not eligble for enrollment and both my sister and I have the same qantum of Blackfeet Blood from our mother. I used to argue that with enrollment all the time and yell genocide. But all they gave me was descendant paperwork and sent me on my way. It was not until I showed up again to the Tribal Enrollment Office in August of 2008 when a young lady behind the counter asked me, why are you not enrolled? I told her I would like to know the answer to that myself. She had me fill out my paperwork and submitted it to council and now I am enrolled with the Blackfeet. What's up with that? Now, my question is this: Do I get the money due to me from 1966 to 2008? $20.00 a year or so. Humm....I will check into that and let cha know. But the enrollment is now open and if you meet the Blackfeet Qantum of 1/4 rush it. (406) 338-3533."
(Blood Degrees)

"Carmen Lewis Saul
Jan 30, 2009 12:04 PM
...This issue of blood degree needs to be fixed. I am of Dakota parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and great great grandparents,....they all come from the four bands of Dakota, yet I am listed as only 3/8 Santee. And matter of fact it actually says, or is written as 3/8 Santee. Hilarious, hilarious cause I am alllll Santee, Santee is another term for Isanti, all four Dakota bands are collectively called Isanti. So it is quite obvious theres descrepancy here. So right now there is, for the 'concerned' an uproar for this tolerated ongoing pratice of being referenced to fractionalized blood degree when people are literally all Dakota. So this is what is going on in this part of Dakota territory..."

Jan 31, 2009 06:58 AM
...Blood quantum rules as a test of being Indian, however well motivated today, most especially applied within a single tribe, is a prescription for extinction in the fullness of time."
(Blood Quantum)

"Nadiya Littlewarrior
Jan 31, 2009 11:34 AM
I am 100% Human Being. My heart belongs to The Creator, Mamogosnan, the One Who Created Us All in His/Her image from the Star Nation and Mother Earth. Anything else is simply a way of keeping us all off guard and out of touch with each other. Can you imagine if Native American Indians had their own anti defamation league or naacp? Wow~what a power house of good works we could do together.
(Blood Q)

Feb 01, 2009 07:24 AM
Because I look Indian, it was never a issue of if I was or wasn't.And coming from a family of many many siblings,half and full,raised in a unhealthy enviroment on the rez,(south dakota) just surviving was important.So when I left(moved to another state) and married white and now my children have also, my grandchildren are not recognised as Indian.Not enough blood(1/8) and unless they marry or have a child with someone of nakota,dakota,or lakota blood(we're lakota)the bloodline ends with my children.Does this make me sad? Alittle but thats the way it has to be,surviving was more important. "
(Blood Quantum)

"Eli Grayson (Mvskoke)
Feb 01, 2009 10:39 AM
Interesting article.
I want to know if the author studied any of the National Archive's records from the Competence Commission in the late 19th century? Clearly from these records you would learn that blood quantum were based on the theory that a white man was the most intelligent being on the planet and any mixture of his race he became incompetent. A Indian who was 1/4 was in the eyes of a full blood white man '3/4 intelligent'. A Indian who was 1/2 white man was '1/2 intelligent'. By this theory we know what a white man thought of a 4/4 Indian. The blood quantum genetics theory was and is to this day the most dangerous opponent to tribal government sovereignty. Example, as long as the Creek, Cherokee or Apache etc. think and refer to themselves in blood quantum or race instead of political nationalities we will never reach the promised land of self govern. Most Americans think a Cherokee is race instead of a political group. This is very dangerous.
Eli Grayson (Mvskoke)"
(Holocaust and Natives) 

[NOTE:  I've said it myself, many times, "Native American" is NOT a specific 'race':  it's a geographical and chronological designation.]

"Manuel Carranza
Feb 01, 2009 01:04 PM
I agree.
Besides being a way to ensure that only Indians got the pitiful and paltry benefits that the federal goverment was giving to the Natives they made treaties with, it was an insidious way of permanently removing the land and memory of a people.
What has happened to many Native families is a tragedy. To be told you are no longer native because you fail a minimum blood quantum must be heartbreaking and its totally false. Many Eurasian peoples moved and interbred over centuries of war, conquest, migration and political alliance. They were not tatooed and catalogued the way the Jews were in WW2 nor the way Natives are now. They were who they were by culture, ethnicity and nationality. They were mixed of course but it didn't matter. It was kinship, family and self-declaration that made them Hungarian (East Europeans mixed with Mongol), Spanish (Celts, Iberians mixed with African and Arabian) and Italian (Mediterranean diaspora!).
Many tribes have rid themselves of this system and some have reinstituted it because of Casino greed. No matter how you look at it Blood Quantum is about exclusion when times are good and inclusion when times are bad. If money and benefits abound, the rolls are restricted so it can't be shared. If times are hard and they need someone to blame, they round up the ones who might have loyalty to be question and sequester them. Sometimes sequestration for the safety of the "american" public, sometimes for termination altogether.
Blood quantum is especially cogent to my situation. I am Mexican (part indigenous/part European) and although I look completely Native, have to prove my heritage. Mexican people, whose lands were stolen twice, once by the Spanish and secondly by WallStreet, have to come the US to survive. All of Mexico's wealth lies in US or European hands. Yet, we are persecuted and blamed for the bad economy taking away jobs that no one else wants. Blamed for international security even though the 911 terrorists came through Canada. Blamed for the drug trade, even though the CIA benefits from that money and drug flow can be halted at anytime. I hope more Natives read this editorial because Natives are Natives by culture and family, not solely by blood. If you don't believe me, try looking into the eyes of your blond haired neice and telling her she is not part of you and your heritage."
(Native Blood Comment)


"Lose your temper and you lose a friend; lie and you lose yourself."   ~HOPI

Friday, February 10, 2012

Paleolithic DNA and Morphology

Neanderthal demise due to many influences, including cultural changes
(I don't consider Neanderthals to be Paleolithic; I believe that they're Neolithic.  I only included this article for the interesting ideas presented therein.)
Interesting ideas again, although based on speculative chronology... It substantiates my belief that Neanderthals were not inventive, in the creative manner of Human beings.  I believe that in fact they copied Human behavior and technologies (to the best of their very limited abilities).  They would have been like severely mentally and physically impaired Humans, with big teeth.  Also Impulsive, compulsive, and ill-tempered.


This article helps me to understand why I rated "Zulu" ethnicity in my anthropometric analysis.  I have a lot of Paleo-American / Paleo-European DNA.

But, I still don't think that I look anything like modern Zulus, lol.  So, it's puzzling (and strangely, somehow miraculous) to me, how that happened (even though I believe it's probably accurate, now that I see this).

However, I have read someplace that Zulus are much different (more Cro-Magnon or something like that) from most Africans.  Understandable, since they're South African (and Homo Sapiens sapiens is said to have originated in South Africa; but also in Northwest Africa, near the Tuaregs' and Basques' ancient homelands).

And oddly enough, I had a crazy premonition that very thing would happen:  that I would come up "Zulu", lol (without really knowing why, at the time) -- right before I first entered all the measurements data into the analyzer for computation.

There was no way that I could have made that happen.  It took me all by surprise, and I'm not sure anyone could cause that program to show an intended result (excepting maybe, someone who is quite well-versed in the science of Anthropology).  In fact, it's taken me several days of befuddled searching, to finally understand that it's probably correct.

Now that I understand the reasoning behind it, I have very little problem with accepting it. 

Also, the analysis put me at zero percent "white American" (which is really "Aryan"); and only 1 percent "Afro-American".  I'm 74-75 percent "Zulu", lol.  However, the application doesn't consider Native American anthropology at all.  Yet, this same article (cited above) explains the direct relationship between Native American, Indigenous European, Norse, and Zulu morphologies.  All are very, very similar, somehow.  All are Paleolithic, Cro-Magnon.

I'm not only Native American (with rare, ancient "European" mtDNA), but also probably Norse (Danish Viking Denmans); and most likely the Xaviers (Jabiers, Seviers) and possibly even the Geneaus (Ganos) were Basques.  According to Dienekes' article, along with other information that I've been able to collect over the years, it seems that all of those are Paleolithic types.  And according to the article, the Paleolithic types all have a certain degree of genetic similarities, even though they are divided geographically.

Besides the Zulu morphology and the lack of modern "American" morphology (neither "white" Aryan, nor "black") -- even though it could be said that I'm ironically 'more' "American" than most people -- I also have some tendencies toward Croatian (8%), Russian (6%), Greek and Japanese (both 3%).

Ever since I was a child, I was frequently embarassed by people unexpectedly commenting on my skin color:  they seemed to think that my skin was unusually red- or pink- toned.  They would call attention to it, sometimes in ways that made me feel it was something to be ashamed of, made me feel uncomfortable and inexplicably freakish.  Short of using heavy, unnatural makeup, there was nothing I could do to change how I look.  But now I just realize that I'm a 'red-skin':  nothing to be ashamed of, rather something that I should be proud of.

Besides my naturally "rosey cheeks" (some people were much kinder, when describing me), my skin is unusually transparent and tissue-paper delicate.  My veins are visible through it, and I don't tan well at all, burning very easily.  I prefer to avoid much direct sunlight.

From my Cherokee grandmother, I (and my mother, too) inherited the tendency to bruise easily; it must be genetic.   We also have the 16189C mutation (a marker for the risk of type II diabetes), and although most of my family have escaped that dreadful condition through our very healthy eating habits, unfortunately I became very ill with it immediately following my pre-employment physical at the local Veterans' Affairs hospital (station number 666).

At one of the group orientations at work, a staff nurse(?) leading the meeting, claimed to be a Creole "witch", from Louisiana.  She then deliberately demonstrated her "Southern" accent for us, really laid it on thick (seemed very proud of her ability to talk that way), although she didn't actually say anything meaningful or coherent.  Next, to my horror and consternation, she directed the following statement to me:  "Native Americans never last long here at Fort MacKenzie; don't know why, but they just won't look us in the eye..."

I looked her in the eye; she looked evil.  Then I peered around the room, to see the reactions of the other new employees (most of whom were medical staff, nurses, etc.).  Not one of them would look me in the eye; not one of them seemed to have even heard what the "Creole" woman had just said to me.  "I'm Native American," I admitted (I'd put that on my application, too, where they ask you to identify your 'race').  "Oh..." was all she said, very coyly.

... The government (local, state, and federal) and local medical establishment have refused to help me through my illness.  They claimed baselessly, that it's "all in my mind".  I'm still breathing, and have a pulse; so as far as they're concerned, I can get a job, purchase some health insurance, and then get some medical attention.  Yeah, right (be their guinea pig and also pay them to experiment on me).

They behaved as if worried that the hospital might get into some sort of trouble for my health problems, just because I told the truth about when and how I got sick.  Every time I simply mentioned it, they became very uncomfortable (squirmed) and behaved very strangely.  Sometimes they wouldn't look me in the eyes; and other times they seemed trying to 'stare me down'.  Their eyes darted around the room, or sometimes became fixed wide open, sort of mocking (also known as the 'thousand' yard stare, the 'reptilian' stare -- they look right through you, unblinking).

The very first doctor I saw, whose name according to his nametag, started with two "AA"s and looked German or maybe Dutch to me (at the local "free clinic", where the staff set out a jar for $15 'donations'; where I waited four hours to be seen; and where a very tall, chunky VA nurse with fire-engine red hair, apparently a transvestite, worked the triage on me -- and who showed zero recognition of me later, when I'd reported to her department at the VA hospital for a TB test), called me "stupid" and "crazy", and declared (before he even looked at me) that it wasn't what said (a fungal ear infection) -- it was what he said:  and he would only give me a prescription for antibiotics; I could take it or leave it.

That was after he dropped the ear-viewing instrument on the floor, then picked it up and jammed it roughly into my sick ear.

They all became extremely defensive, and also went on the offensive toward me (as if I'm some sort of 'villain').  They really do work as a team, regardless of their intended goal.  One ER doctor (the first one:  I've been in there three times, begging for help with it) tried to prove that I'm mentally incompetent, with some mickey-mouse questionaire.  He had gingery, light red hair and blue-ish eyes, was fairly tall, and I'd remember his name if I heard it:  it's right on the tip of my tongue.  When examining my ear, he callously remarked, "Oh yeah, that's puss-y."

The whole team (all several of them), each interrogated me one at a time, taking my 'history'.  They all asked the exact same questions, and pretended to write down my answers or take notes.  Not one of them really gave a damn, took me seriously, or got any real meaning out of what I was telling them.  No respect.

The local doctor who does Social Security examinations (Dr. Wilson), made a sick, demented joke about slicing my ear off (and diagnosed me without testing, with cancer of the skin on my ear, which I do not have); yet reported that although in his opinion I was "healthy" enough to work -- I should get a psychiatric evaluation nevertheless.  He bragged that he'd been a "lumberjack" in his "previous life".  He also whined that I ought to have gotten myself a diabetes test, "they only cost about $36 at the hospital."  (I was unemployed, broke.  That's why I was seeking financial aid, disability.  At this point, I don't even trust medical 'professionals' at all, any more.)

He referred me to a local shrink for my alleged "mental problem" (I didn't go though, because my complaint was physical, not mental -- had it been a mental issue, I would have said so).  The ER docs (all three) charged me $550 each visit and told me that I wasn't sick -- yet referred me to a local Ear Nose and Throat specialist instead.  A "puss-y" ear isn't a sick ear?

If you seek Soc. Sec. Disability (or, show up at an ER without health insurance) these days, you can expect the same treatment:  they will try to make a mental case out of you, while baselessly insisting that you're not physically sick (no lab tests done, even though I repeatedly told them I have very clear symptoms of diabetes and a suppressed immune system).

And I've lately seen (while researching my illness so that I can hopefully heal it myself, since I'll die before any real 'professional' care actually materializes) that even many people who have health insurance and good jobs, are very often being treated just as badly as I was, by doctors these days.  The medical establishment (like bureaucrats) have become very spoiled, finding convenient ways to exploit patients / clients while abusing their powers, authority, and privileges.

We have Congress and the Federal government to thank, for destroying the Civil Rights, health, security, finances and safety of innocent American citizens.

... Another one (the second ER doc, "Dr. Finley" on his name tag) tried to force me to take a thyroid test (he said, "I'll talk to you ONLY if you agree to go along with whatever tests I recommend for you") -- but I don't have thyroid problems.  I told him I have diabetes and a life-threatening, now complicated fungal ear infection.

He finally did concede a little (when I refused to go along with the unnecessary invasive procedure -- which by the way I would've had to pay for:  I don't mind paying for relevant tests, however), and wrote me a prescription for a commonplace antifungal medicine to be taken internally -- yet only gave me enough for FOUR DAYS of treatment.  Obviously, that wasn't enough to make me well (suppressed immune system, etc.);  it only made me feel a lot better for about a week or so; nevertheless, they charged me the usual minimum office visit anyway:  $550.

The third ER doctor (the one with multiple large earrings in both ears), after displaying an extremely cold disregard for my health, tried to trick me into threatening suicide (he asked me near the end of my 'visit', whether I was depressed enough about the way they'd abused me there, to "do something" to myself --  although I didn't even complained about the lousy treatment to him, and really just wanted more than anything, to stay focused on the illness which had brought me into their examining room)... I answered:  "If I wanted to die, I wouldn't be here at a hospital, asking for medical attention."

They (every one of the medical staff, most of whom also work with or for the VA, and the Social Security bureaucrats who spoke to me by telephone) seemed to read a lot more meaning into my statements about how I got sick, than what I had actually said (because, I'd never taken an accusatory tone with any of them about it).

They became mean and aggressive toward me, refusing to prescribe anything helpful or to run any relevant tests on me.  That behavior is what finally raised suspicion in me.  Previously, I'd thought it was just some accident (the female intake doctor at the VA failed to tell the EKG technician, Sue Vogel, that I'd reported having had a heart attack a few years before -- I'd told her that my heart stopped for a few seconds in my sleep, waking me and causing a great deal of chest pain for days afterward) or maybe some unusual reaction to the EKG.  Now, I wonder whether they did something intentionally to kill me off and cause me to leave my job.  I've lost all trust in them.  (Go figure, lol).

They became deaf and dumb, when I told them that I'd recently gotten an EKG (at the VA physical exam) -- which inequivocally proved that I have a heart infarc, apparently from the heart attack (and I'd also told them that I believed the EKG had made my immune system fail, causing the diabetic symptoms:  after all, Sue Vogel, the technician who performed it on me, was very disturbed when she saw the read-out:  she asked me if I was "alright?", and seemed quite concerned about me... At the time, although very weak and lightheaded afterwards, I optimistically reassured her that I would be fine.  The fact is, I was reasonably healthy when I went in there, thus didn't expect that my health would go down the tubes later).

(By the way, as I'd informed the female VA doctor who triaged my pre-employment exam, the heart attack was triggered by the normal dosage of Tylenol PM -- two tablets -- combined with physical exhaustion from working so much overtime).

I'd also reported my damaged neck bones (my customary work is all mostly manual labor, involving a lot of lifting and moving of heavy objects from place to place, heavy cleaning, etc.), and was told by the intake clerk(?) that the hospital "might" X-ray it (evidently, they typically only X-ray the lumbar, lower back region, for pre-employment).  They didn't; and the X-ray technician photographing my lower back seemed annoyed with me just for asking about that.

Yet, regardless of the information I'd freely given about my heart condition (ie, the recent EKG at the VA), the 'Social Security' 'Administration' later forced me to have a chest X-ray done anyway -- so that they could rule out any heart problems.  But, an EKG is a heart diagnostic, much more so than a chest X-ray; I didn't need to be exposed to unnecessary radiation.  Also, they refused to even show me the X-ray picture when I asked to see it (I'd formally requested, in writing, to see all of my lab results and reports).

Changing the subject a little bit (I know I rant about it a lot, but I'm still in need of financial aid and proper medical attention, and can't get either one from a corrupt system -- feeling like an American non-citizen now -- it's unfair, unjust):  I realize now, what the obstetricians and midwives were mumbling about years ago, concerning my pelvis.  I have a very rare, "archaic" (to use the now-defunct medical term for it), Platypelloid pelvis.  That's why my firstborn was born breech.  And although he probably should have been delivered by Caesarian section (would have prevented the birth injuries he received:  bruised hips and a very badly dislocated neck), doing so in those days would've required that my other two children be delivered the same way.

My point is:  being unusual (or, in the "minority" -- whether or not it's openly recognized by either yourself or the people around you) may sometimes be both, beneficial and dangerous or hazardous to your well being.

And I am certain, that we true Paleolithic types are in the minority now.