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Thursday, December 22, 2011

Reply to Yorkie on "Different Vikings?"

quote Yorkie':
"I realise that identity and heritage are sensitive subjects, and I have no desire to deny you yours, but where does this 'plenty of evidence' that you refer to actually lie? I previously conceded the possiblity that you might have some Norse connection but we need to examine the odds of that being likely.

   "There is certainly some interest in the subject of Norse-Native American contact  but as far as I can see, the only hard evidence for any is in the single case of L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada. The Native American peoples involved are believed to have been most likely the now extinct Beothuk. Recently, the subject made the news again when Carles Lalueza-Fox of Pompeu University, Spain announced that the genes of a Native American woman who had been brought to Iceland circa 1000AD were present amongst some Icelanders. Does this mean that there is evidence that Native American tribes such as the Lumbee and Cherokee, who are known to contain individuals with blue/green eyes and red/blond hair, have admixture that can be traced to the Norse? I do not know. What seems evident though is that in both cases we have Native American tribes who lived in close contact with white communities in much later times. Is it equally possible that the fair phenotypes come from more recent 18th/19th century or later interaction? Yes, I think it is. Judging from the L'Anse aux Meadows evidence [arguably the only credible evidence], the Norse 'invasion' of
Newfoundland was very small in number and short-lived. On the face of it, it would seem therefore most unlikely that the Vikings passed on their genes to Native American tribes outside of the Beothuk. We need more than oral traditions here. Unless there is evidence that you know about that I have missed?

    "As for the Phoenicians- how do you know that they even carried blue/green eyes and blond hair? I thought that they were supposed to be dark-complexioned? Where is the evidence for Phoenician-Native American contact? The infamous 'Bat Creek Inscription' is widely considered a fraud."
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You're answering to a post of mine made here, which was blocked by moderators. So the readers can't see that you attribute words & ideas to me that are not my own. How devious. So I'm not going to engage in debate with you concerning my heritage, based on my deleted / omitted comments.

I don't require your approval of my ideas about my own heritage. You can't negate or prove otherwise, the facts of it, either. Your wild speculations regarding my heritage are insulting of my personal (& my family's) integrity, & are plainly libelous. Cease & desist now, Yorkie.

I don't make personal attacks on you or anyone else, even though I must take your word on it. I have made ~general~ statements regarding my ~theories~ about ~Human origins~ or ~migrations~. But never have I suggested that any ~specific person~ is wrong, mistaken, lying or stupid.

But since you've opened up the subject, I must say this: Your claims of having paper or legal documentation are simply meaningless & unproven to ~me~ or to others on this forum. Papers & legal documents may be, & are often, forged (or incorrectly recorded). And internet files are garbage in; garbage out; with respect to accuracy.

In my own case, here's a pertinant example: My grandfather's tombstone was added to his grave roughly 50 years or more after his death at age ~38~ (in 1944). Because it took so long for it to be done (& money wasn't the issue, btw), the engraver was given the wrong information (by whichever family member had ordered the monument, probably one of my cousins) for his date of death. Instead of 1944 as his date of death, someone mistakenly thought that he LIVED 44 years; so the stone is marked in error, with 1950 as the year of death (a difference of ~6~ years).

How do I know that's what happened? Because my grandfather's SON (who remembered quite clearly that he was ~8~ yrs old at the time of his father's demise; which would have been sometime before Aug 1 1944; remembered that day with photographic clarity, & described it in detail to me).

If there is a death record available (which hasn't been tampered with, lost or destroyed by the authorities), I'm sure I could prove it ~legally~ (but would have to lay out a substantial sum of cash to gain access to it, nevertheless, since public records are bought & sold like commodities in this country).

However, although I would LIKE to have 'legal' proof of his factual/actual year of death, I don't. So I'm quite satisfied to believe the ~truth~, which is what I was TOLD by my father (and which I have no problem remembering quite clearly).

As for the errant grave stone, what's done is done. It would be quite expensive to correct it at this point (although if I had the means, I would make every effort to do so). But ~I~ know the truth of the matter, even if few or no others seem to have taken notice of it.

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Note: Even the title heading on the webpage of 'findagrave' .com carried an error in the spelling of his name. The photograph on the stone shows it was spelled correctly there: "Vernon"; but the heading on that webpage had it spelled "Veron" -- making it virtually impossible to easily google his grave marker.

Vernon Winters Denman:

Born April 3, 1906

Died March 25, 1944 (tombstone says 1950, incorrectly; actual day of death may also be questionable due to the fact that he did in state custody in a mental hospital in Arcadia, Florida, where no family or friends were nearby him at the time, to be witnesses on his behalf)

Buried at Millwood Cemetery, Reddick, Marion County, Florida (his grave, which my father showed me a couple of times when I was a teenager, was until very recently marked only with a printed card in a generic plastic or glass sleeve surrounded by metal and stuck into the ground at the head of his resting place)

Dad told me that his father Vernon, was 38 yrs old at the time of his death (in 1944). He said that he clearly remembered being called out of school that day, & who his teacher was at the time, etc. He said that the family was told that Vernon died of suicide (which I question). In those days & among some members of the family, suicide was considered to be an 'unforgivable' ~sin~. So my father heard people talking about it, saying things like: "Vernon ~can't~ go to heaven to be with the Lord, because he committed suicide". That broke my father's heart, causing him to hate & despise religion from that time forth. He was only 8 yrs old when his father died.

But, how did those adult family members ~know~ that Vernon committed suicide in the first place (disregarding their religious beliefs for now)? That's what the ~hospital~ & authorities told them (he died in that institution, so they may have had bias or reason to cover something up). They took the hospital's word on it, without evidence of proof that what they claimed was true.

I don't even know WHY he was in there, in the first place. (And shouldn't the surrounding factual circumstances have some bearing on the whole case? I've seen no newspaper clippings or other records of any wrong-doing on my grandfather's part, so why was he there at all? I want to know.

I only know that he and grandma had recently been divorced. Grandma refused to talk about it at all to me, when asked about grandpa. (I only asked her about him, like, "I would like to hear about my grandpa whom I've never had the pleasure to meet"... she then responded, "No", with pursed lips & diverted eyes).

I only know that my father was crushed by his death; that he loved the man; that he never had one bad or negative thing to say about him. He had fond memories of Vernon, & was very honest with me in his descriptions of that very humble man. He said that Vernon had asthma; didn't own a car; & walked many miles to get from place to place. He said that Vernon lived in an Ocala boarding house in those days, after the divorce. He even showed me the old house on Magnolia Avenue downtown, where his father had lived.

And that Aunt Pat (his only sibling, & Vernon's daughter) became brainwashed with the same religious beliefs which unjustly condemned a dead man who could not speak for himself in his own defense. She was so whacked out about it, that she married a man whose own mother committed suicide (actually in a publicly executed & widely documented jump off a radio tower near her house, rather than as Vernon was alleged to have done in secrecy behind locked doors far away from home), although she may have done so after their marriage, idk.

When young, I also simply accepted whatever I was told about Vernon Winters Denman, my grandfather; even though I too noticed that there seemed to be quite a lot of confusion & shame linked to his death. But now I don't simply accept what I've been told, & not because I don't believe my father's testimony. It's because I don't believe or trust the hospital's or authorities' word, regarding my grandfather's death. Where's the proof that it happened the way that the Hospital claims?

That same hospital has been since closed down fairly recently, due to abuses & neglect of patients. I also know that someone in the vicinity of that hospital probably defrauded the government out of social security retirement benefits, based on Grandpa's death, probably with his forged or altered death certificate.

I want to get to the bottom of this; & I want justice done. 70+ years is too long a time, for a man to lay dead in his grave, having died too young to begin with, without due process.

I also believe my own father was killed off too young, by his physicians. I think they did it to harvest his corneas (or retinas, something to do with his eyes). He was an organ donor, and quite proud of his perfect vision. Organ transplanting is a big business for the medical establishment; & it's quite obvious to me, that they only care about $$$. I believe that my father was the victim of gross medical malpractice, himself. Misdiagnoses. Taking advantage of patient's emotional issues. Genocide, eugenics... all goes back to the root of all evil: greed for money. Too many doctors go into the business of 'healthcare' for the money & status. Too many of them obviously don't care about the health & well-being of their patients.

I've now reached the conclusion that this country has been gradually yet insidiously taken over by Nazi Darwinists, practicing medical tortures, thefts & frauds, eugenics & genocide, against some patients / citizens. They're getting away with discriminations against patients & citizens, which too often lead to deaths by both direct & indirect ~murders~.

They probably choose their victims carefully, knowing full well what they can or can't get away with. Why would they ~openly~ oppress us anyway, when they can do it much more successfully on the 'sly'? Criminals always take pains to cover up their misdeeds, to avoid discovery & punishment.

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